gamegrene.com

"What's in a name? Sometimes nothing. Mnydogg.."

Uhm, Mnydogg!? How exactly do you prenounce that? :)

Your article was reasonably convincing until this point, so I hope either that's a typo or you are willing to admit you are being a bit hypocritical towards people with names like F'Lok or X'Onnu. Those I can pronounce quite happily, and in fact I have met people, generally of asian descent, who have names which when translated to English appeared far more unprounounceable than the above, and due to my limited vocal abilities as an English speaker proved totally unpronounceable, as I was not able to form the correct inflections etc.

Apart from that note I generally agree with what you said, especially about people with names like Keanu Reeves or Britney Spears, those are people who never were taught what ROLEPLAYING means.

Have to side with Caliban about Mnydogg, man it sounds worst than most of the ones you mentionned.

But I have to agree with you on most of your article. We used to play a game set in an orc kingdom. All the players' characters were monsters so alot of experimenting was done. Here are worst names that were ever created:

1 - Shravrickr, who was from then on called the unspeakable.

2 - Mmpf (kind of the sound a cow or bull makes when it vents air through its nostrils), a minotaure. The name was fine in a conversation, but try to yell: "watch out Mmpf!" without blowing snot all over your chin or bursting a sinus.

3 – Mettrick the Troll, actually I didn't realise what how it sounded before I said it and it was too late.

The anagram trick is a nice one, but use it on names and surnames, it works well I find. Some names like Smithicks, Grolsh and Bauer also sound great, even if they are brand names.

Anywho just my grain of salt.

Cthulhu Matata

Good call on the Aztec names, Sam. Ever tried pronouncing a name like "Tlaloc?" Or "Ixtacihuatl" for that matter? The problem is that nahuatl was an ideographic language to begin with, so when Spanish monks started transliterating it after the Conquest there were some sounds that the Aztecs could make with their mouths, but that just couldn't be expressed using a romanized alphabet. That's why there are, like, 15 different ways that historians spell "Moctezuma." Okay, end rant, you can tell I'm a Spanish major, can't you? (c;

But seriously, I think one of the things that makes a name seem silly sooner than anything else is when the players *make* it silly. I think "Mettrick" is a perfectly decent troll name, personally; if the players had tried to forget about what it meant in their world and just taken it for what it was. Names are tough to do well, as this article very nicely shows, and some players are really self-conscious about them. The last thing anyone needs is their gaming group snickering behind their hands when they introduce their character, especially if it's something they really slaved over. That said, maybe gamers should just cut each other a little slack from time to time...unless someone's character is named Britney Spears, in that case throw the Monstrous Manual at them.

Tranche de Vie:

In grade 10, in my first AD&D campaign the first recurring vilain my party encountered was a paladin named Avogadro (Since I hated Chemistry I had named him after the guy who invented the "table of chemical elements?" LE TABLEAU PÉRIODIQUE EN FRANÇAIS) Anyway, the guys laughed for one game, but they soon dreaded the name as much as I dreaded chemistry quizzes.

By the way I find that Russian makes for great fantasy hero names Vftornik (Tuesday) Dourak (Stupid) Padajdi (Wait). Spanish too is a great language, don't stick to english folks.

Our D&D table has names in English and in French except when it comes to dwarves, who for some reason all sound German or Russian.

C ya

One of my favorite characters used the last name "Hellspire".

My DM at the time was skeptical of this (pointing out that the character was good-aligned). I reminded him that you nobody gets to choose their last name (well, unless you have it legally changed but I doubt that happens much in fantasy worlds).

Okay, two pieces.
I will agree with the previous posters in terms of tradition. Kenobi285 is as much internet tradition as anything, and thus, for Everquest, in contest with any other sort of naming proprietry.

But I'm really here to defend the whole dual name thing. In fact, I think it even fits a grander point.

In a game of mine, all northerners will have dual names. It started as an accident, really. Icewind, Bladeflower, Blackrock, Pineheart and so on. And, yes, things do get silly when you start getting to Lord Fireplace in Castle Lastnight. But the point is it fits into a scheme. First off it gets applied to more than just people, and folks start getting into the linguistic games that surround how such a language would develop and what it would mean for a psychology. But moreover, Northerners have a way of identifying themselves. What would be stupid, becomes cool because it transforms into an issue of pride.

See, the point is not that Larana is somehow a better name than Hakhhhoq, but it is a name that fits a certain context. For pseud-euro fantasy, the latter is unreasonible. But give that unpronouncible a good context and away you go. And the former would be completely unsutible if, for instance, the game was set pseudo-mid-east fantasy.

However, it does show disrespect for the Everquest system.

However, I am not suprised.

-J.S.

Actually Wooz I disagree with you, "Lord Fireplace" can be a good name, if it doesn't mean lord of the "Foyer". If the Fireplace family are the sacred guardians of some holy flame or those who keep the lighthouse working it is a great name.

And as far as castle last night goes, the name might have started as "castle of the Last Knight" and believe me old names have a tendency to change over time. You would be surprised how many of our names are batardisations of older names from a few centuries ago.

Anyhow, for all halflings in our games we've been giving names that relate to scenery and plants. Humans from certain kingdoms tend to have descriptive names, especially the commoners "Shoemaker, Smith, Carpenter etc." Gnomes have very descriptive and unending first names. Their last name tends to get lost since they never get to say them before we fall asleep or wander away :-)

C ya later

Actually Wooz, "foyer" is a frenchism. It has a narrower meaning than its French equivalent, but nonetheless I used it wrong in my previous post (it's one of those words I always screw up like noteworthy and notorious which are the same word in French).

And being up to my nose in student debts, the place where I stoke the fire in my house is nowhere, but if I had a fireplace, that would be where I would stoke the fire (unless I was a pyromaniac, which isn't what you were asking right?)

Anyhow, I do agree that when foreigners meet the Northmen from J.S.'s game, it must be hard at times to remain serious. But then I once met a guy named Cole Gates... somehow I couln't help but smile...

Oh by the way, many English words and expressions are extremely funny when translated to other languages. For example Microsoft can be interpreted as "Small and not hard", poor Bill. Remember the Nova fiasco in Mexico, the car had a cool name Nova, but in Spanish "No Va" means doesn't work... In alternity there was a race called the Tsa, in Québec Slang, Tsa means "This".

And I won't go on.

But this gives me an idea for a rant.

Cthulhu matata

Yup great kindling, especially if you imagine you are closer and closer to burning the last one... Sometimes I feel like I sold my soul to the Devil and that little piece of paper feel like it's written in blood.

That makes me think, the Cleric has been complaining about how poor the party was... enters the Hell Spawned Banker bwa ha ha ha ha.

And yes I'll try to give him a cool name... probably an anagram on banker.
Say, how does one write banker en espanol? (sorry can't find the tildé on my keyboard).

Vayan con dios amigos.

I would have found it first if all of my dictionaries weren't packed up for moving. Honest! :) Ask me another question. :)

Ack, Wooz, I wasn't clear, I apologize.

To date, no Lord Fuzzypants has appeared. But let's do the numbers:

I was responding to the author's original comments, to the extent that the dual word overdescription is:
"...trite and offensive to the eyes. Names should consist of something more than two randomly selected nature words joined together." And then using personal tales to support the view that the author was missing the forest for the trees.

The dual names work out because all words in Ancient Troish are composed of two parts, or "idioms," which mean things in and of themsevles but which are never used by themselves. Names basically come from two sources: ancient words for various things, places and what have you that became associated to vairous families, and also the wholly fabricated ones which are given to the child by his or her mother's maid-of-honor. Technically, she provides the former as well.

In short, yes, there is a heavy internal logic. There wasn't one to start with, but one grew. Your fears are justified but unwarranted.

But logics always break down in the face of expediancy. To the same extent that in a game where people had normal names people tend to default when they need to make one up to Bob or Dave (excact name depends on the speaker), when dealing with Northerners there is no ready default. So the defaults tend to end up silly ("This sword...er...Lady Blacklight gave it to me) which, seeing as how we're dealing with LARPers mostly, there's a lot of.

My point is, to steal your analogy, recipie is all important. Curry doesn't belong in pasta sauce, but it sure does belong in curry. Practically anything has some use in some recipie somewhere. Know your recipie. If you use names like K'lagggeq, put him/her/it in a context of people with equally difficult names. Do whatever, just give it context. And remember that it won't always keep up, becuase there will be times when you are silly and namestarved and keep using Blargag over and over again.

I think the best solution to this problem is to not allow players to choose their own names. Why should they be able to? I didn't get to choose mine. Just assign them a name from a good random name generator and be done with it.

Both of those are probably better than most of the names most d3wdz would chuz for th3ms3lv3z.

But regardless I did say a "good" random name generator. If they can put characters on the moon, then they can build a better name builder.

I use my Palm and a memo in there to write down interesting names when I hear them or see them. That way, I can have a list to peruse when the time is needed.

I also must admit that the main country in the gameworld created by my husband and myself is named Thearea because I misheard what he said. He was in another room, and I heard him speaking, and thought that he'd named the country Thearea. When what he really said was The Area. But it stuck, he liked it, and now I must live it down. Forever.

Best thing about a name like X'Lotti is that you can always tell someone that they're mispronouncing it.

X'lotti?
No, X'lotti.
X'lotti?
No, X'lotti. Aren't you paying attention?

-J.S.

"Jhudsui..."

"Choodsway?!?"

"No, you idiot, Jhusdui - just the way it's spelled!"

--The Sigil

I'd just like to point out that the names of Gods (Odin, Jehovah, etc.) only seem strong and proud because they're centuries upon centuries old. If Odin had been named Bill, today Bill would be reverred as a strong and proud name.

P.S. I like to use latin for my character's names, but usually I just make them up.

Yeas, I have to comment about that some of those names are completely pronounciable using Finnish, because everything is written as pronounced. But pronouncing those names in English would be very hard. At least to me because my pronunciation is not very good at all (well, I sometimes pronounce even Finnish wrongly). But there really could be some odd names. For example my surname is extremely odd (but easily pronounced because of the pronouciation rules) and if I announce it most people here in Finland would make some mistakes (if not knowing anybody who has such surname). And to tell it in Finland is nowadays 15 people who has that surname and 11 of them are close relatives of mine. And about over hundred years there has been 26 people who has that surname.

I must point out that celtic (a common language of medieval times) is pretty irresponsible here as well.

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

I must confess that I cut copy pasted this. I haven't the finger strength or patience to type out the whole bloody thing.

Durabaly yours,
Theophenes

*blinks*
*blinks again*
Huh? What the...?

Now you made me curious, Theophenes.
I'll do a quick google for that word...

*returns a short time later*
Criminy... that wasn't just a joke.

There's even a domain called
http://llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.com/

Let me quote their intro:
>>[...] is the longest single word (without hyphens) .com domain name in the world. It was registered by Internetters on 21st October 1999.

This Welsh town actually exists and its name translates as "The church of St. Mary in the hollow of white hazel trees near the rapid whirlpool by St. Tysilio's of the red cave".

For brevity, it is understandable that many of the locals simply refer to their village as "Llanfair" www.llanfair.com or "Llanfair PG" or "Llanfairpwll" which, of course, makes for easier typing and is faster to pronounce.

Prior to October 1999 it was not possible to register .com domain names longer than 26 characters (including 4 for the .com suffix). This denied many businesses and organisations the ability to register their full trading names as a .com domain name. However in October 1999, it became possible to register domain names up to 67 characters in length (including the 4 for the .com suffix).

There is a station in Wales called Gorsafawddachaidraigodanheddogleddollonpenrhynareurdraethceredigion but this is well less known.

And finally, sadly even the 67 character allowance for a .com domain name is still insufficient for the town of Tetaumatawhakatangihangakoauaotamateaurehaeaturipukapihimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuaakitanarahu in New Zealand with a staggering 92 characters however even this seems positively tiny compared to the town of

Krungthepmahanakornamornratanakosinmahintarayutthayamahadilokphopnopparatrajathaniburiromudomrajaniwesmahasatharnamornphimarnavatarnsathitsakkattiyavisanukamprasit

in Thailand which is a whopping 163 characters long so long that it doesn't even fit on one line! However whilst the New Zealand place name is recognised by the Guiness Book of Record, the Thailand name is not.<<

Well, well. The English translation of the Llanfair thing sounds cool. Now THAT is a place name with a history. :) But I daresay that unless you and your players are from a Welsh-speaking background (or at least used to languages in which the name does not look like a random unpronouncable letter salat), it's not a good idea to spring names like that on unsuspecting players. Plus, if you the GM don't know how to pronounce it correctly either, forget it.

As a German, after years of having read Fantasy roleplaying game books and modules that were *saturated* with English names and place names - Dragonlance is especially notorious in this regard - I now try to avoid English names alltogether unless the setting is pseudo-historical Earth. Why would elves speak "English"? Instead I try to borrow from real-world languages that fit the real-world historical culture the Fantasy-world culture in question is patterned after, and mix this with some made-up names that just sound a bit Spanish, or Breton, or Anglo-Saxon, or whatever.

Books of historical names, nicknames and place names help immensely, too, as do books of Folktales and mythology; unless a name is too strongly associated and too widely known, i.e. Merlin, Orpheus, Onan, Oedipus, Moses. On the other hand, variants (like Myrrdin), or by-names ("Ambrosius", from the Merlin Ambrosius of legend), or simply names of lesser-known legendary figures (like Taliensin) can still work, if you keep in mind and remind the players that it was common practice to name children after some famous figure of history or myth.

Even today, you could name a child "Jesus" or "Mohammed" or even "Thor", and no-one would snicker. Usually these names are still around *because* they were very common. Take William the Conqueror, or King Artus... the latinised form of Arthur. Arthur is a common name, no reason why it shouldn't be used anymore? Good name for a little boy whom the parents wish to grow up into a brave and honorable man.

On the other hand, there are names that have taint associated with them, or are ambiguous. An example for the latter might be "Loki" (he was NOT an evil Norse god, even though he wasn't an Aesir, he was a trickster, though he fought on the wrong side during Ragnarög. Only the Christians turned him into a devil figure). An example for the former would be the German first name "Adolf". Once very common by various spellings, it's now virtually extinct. You might meet a few old people who still wear it, but that's about it.

Or is there any Christian today who'd name his son "Lucifer"? It's a beautiful name, isn't it, as it means "the Lightbringer".... ::sigh::

If you, the GM, are running a campaign with detailed cultures, adding little touches like these can add immense colour and mood.
NPCs named after ancient elven heroes.
A renegade exiled dwarf who, in defiance, gave himself the surname of an evil mine spirit from dwarven folktales, a name that is taboo for any normal dwarf to speak as doing so would invite desaster, it is said.
A bard who was named after a famous king before said king became less famous and met a grisley end (assassin with hot pokers up a toilet shaft, anyone?). ;-)

And yes, I myself have shamelessly used "fused" names, too :)... I still run a wizard/rogue character called "Tobrian": a fusion of "Tobias" and "Brian". One or two player characters who don't particularly like spellcasters annoy him by calling him "Toe-brain" whenever he gets into thaumathurgical geek mode. But at least it's a unique name.